“The Pension Value Chain” – what do we want in retirement from our money?

 

Brian Henderson has provided some interesting reading in August and now in September he wraps it up with a Pension Value Chain.

So now for Brian Henderson’s Pension Value Chain to work out what we want

 

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The LCP CDC Video; brought to you by Pension PlayPen at coffee time

 

This was quite an occasion with 40 coffee goers at the Pension PlayPen coffee morning. Among the audience I noted employers looking for purchasing tips, consultants looking for employers to advise, civil servants wrapped in delivering the next version of CDC later this year and our favorite peer, Lord Brixton.

I do not want to spoil what was a fine hour spent where we had more at the end than at the beginning (the word must have spread) and the chat from what I saw was as high class as the debate.

I suspect that if I didn’t post the videos of these events , we would have more attending live but we respect that the timing at 11 am on a working Tuesday may mean that many of our regulars return to the event when it’s available.

Thanks to the videos from all who contributed. Sorry that we can’t find an answer to Andrew’s Young query as to why CDC was not set up as funded state scheme to replace SERPS.

This was quite an occasion and I look forward to a repeat show at 3pm on 16th September at the LCP’s Pension Conference in the Barbican. The same folk but this time live in person!

 

You can access a place at the event on this link.

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Collective Pensions are returning in the US too – and for the same reason as the UK.

I was passed this article by a friend who has a predilection for pensions (as I do). The Americans have yet to discover the CDC variant as their “pension” has the guarantees of what we call “defined benefit. But the motivation to move away from their workplace DC plan (401K) and something

Pensions Were on the Brink of Extinction. Now Companies Are Bringing Them Back.

Some companies are turning to the lost benefit to recruit employees or settle negotiations with labor unions

Pensions were on their way to becoming a relic in corporate America. Now some companies are bringing them back.

The lost benefit is being revived by a small but growing number of companies to settle negotiations with labor unions or win over employees in fields where recruiting and retaining workers is especially competitive.

Matthew Cronin, 27 years old, is among the 600 workers who recently won the benefit from PECO, Pennsylvania’s largest electric and natural gas utility. He plans to keep contributing to his 401(k), but is counting on the pension to help offset the cuts to Social Security he’s anticipating.

“Having a pension is a big motivator to staying with the company,”

said Cronin, a consultant for PECO who helps customers connect to the grid.

Matthew Cronin

Other employers reopening or starting pensions include IBM, meat processing giant JBS Foods and Northwell Health, a major medical system in New York and Connecticut.

Unlike 401(k)s, pensions are typically paid for by employers and offer a retirement check for life. The plans were hit hard by the 2008 financial crisis, when stocks plummeted and new funding requirements forced many companies to contribute more to shore them up. Many companies froze their plans to stop benefits from accruing, moving employees into 401(k)s.

Less than 10% of private-sector workers participated in pensions in 2024, down from about 30% in 1988, according to the nonprofit Employee Benefit Research Institute. Government workers are much more likely to have one.

But recent changes to some types of pensions have made them less of a financial risk for companies, said John Lowell, a pension consultant at October Three.

Traditional plans generally promise lifetime benefits based on salary and years of service, whether markets rise or fall. To reduce the unpredictability of their pension costs, companies including IBM began converting them to cash balance pension plans in the 1990s.

With this version of pensions, employers credit employee accounts with a preset percentage of pay annually and promise a return that’s often tied to Treasury yields.

Many newer plans instead give workers market-linked returns, similar to a 401(k). That shifts most of the investment risk to employees.

Such changes have reduced many of the funding risks and uncertainties that employers disliked about traditional pensions, said Olivia Mitchell, a pension expert at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School.

We aren’t going back to a pension-based system, but there is

“a selective revival under way,” she said.

In 2023, nearly 26,000 employers—most of them relatively small—had cash balance plans, up from about 23,000 in 2020, according to FuturePlan by Ascensus, a plan administrator.

Market conditions are also pushing companies to rethink pensions, including rising stock prices and higher bond yields, which make it easier to meet future payouts.

Many pensions—both active and dormant—now have surpluses, pots of money they can use to fund pension benefits for current employees. The top 100 U.S. corporate pensions now have enough assets to cover 112% of their liabilities, up from 77% in 2012, according to pension consulting firm Milliman.

Efforts by unions to restore pensions have prevailed at airlines including Delta and Southwest, which recently started cash balance plans for pilots.

“There is a groundswell from the participant side to get these things going again,”

said Zorast Wadia, a principal at Milliman.

Ralph A Nappi Campus Northwell Health medical offices building in Long Island, New York.

Northwell Health started rolling out a pension last summer for nurses and administrative staff.

Earlier this year, meat processing company JBS began contributing to a new pension for its approximately 26,000 hourly workers. Jointly managed by JBS and the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union, the plan is open to workers from other meatpacking companies and currently requires most retirees to take a lifetime income, rather than offering a lump-sum option.

The union said it pushed for the pension because fewer of JBS’s hourly workers, who earn an average of about $24 per hour, were saving in the 401(k) than are in the pension.

Jim Ridderbush, a union steward at JBS’s Green Bay, Wis., plant, said that while the older workers are excited,

“the younger kids don’t really understand what a pension is. It’s a dinosaur.”

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Ten questions for LCP’s Draper and Taylor that CDC needs answering

On a rare wet morning down south!

Please add to your calendar and click here or post the link  into your diary. It’s at 10.30 am online. (Tuesday 8th September)

https://teams.microsoft.com/meet/349110786671465?p=44cRsS3vjiqJGdW8aF


It’s back from work and feet under the table and we’re having the first Coffee Morning since Maggie Rodgers and the AMNT at the end of July.

The great news is that the two LCP partners, Steven Taylor and Helen Draper will be talking with us and answering some of the questions that have been “sent in” below. I expect there will be many more from the coffee drinkers who assemble to participate (don’t worry you don’t need to if you don’t want to)!

CDC is undoubtedly the most interesting development in the workplace and the concept of Collective Pensions the natural progression from the DC master trusts we have today.

We’ve been asked a lot of questions by Pension Playgoers over the past few weeks and we’ve gathered these all together to ask Helen and Steve, who’ll be answering some this morning. As important is your questions!

We will not be constrained – we will venture into all aspects of this amazing topic.

  1. Is  CDC a good name or should we move to Collective Pensions?
  2. Is Retirement CDC worth waiting till 2029 for?
  3. So far it’s WTW who say they’ll do it – do we think there’ll be more?
  4. Is there sufficient demand for a market or is their too much demand for supply?
  5. What is “scale” for a CDC scheme to be profitable and VFM to members?
  6. Could CDC be better done by the state?
  7. Should CDC pay a spouse a pension?
  8. Should every CDC member buy a spouse’s pension whether they have one or not?
  9. Should employers have their staff’s transferred from DC to CDC without consent?
  10. Should there be member reps as trustees? Or should trustees be professional?

And for all the talk, who’s walking the Collective Pension walk?

TPT has put its name up and so has Pensions Mutual, a mysterious third CDC know variously as Arboreum and Collective Pension is lurking

Isio have made mutterings about getting authorised as a Proprietor and Aon are promising to get launch a workplace plan some time in 2028.

We hope we have the Church of England joining the multi-employer CDC schemes that have been open to authorisation just over a month now.

I’ll ask a few questions to kick things off and I’m sure they will have some things to say, but this is a Pension PlayPen coffee morning to share experience and discuss the future.

Please add to your calendar and click here or post the link below into your diary. It’s at 10.30 am today online. (Tuesday 8th September)

https://teams.microsoft.com/meet/349110786671465?p=44cRsS3vjiqJGdW8aF

 


 

 

 

 

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Steve Webb explores how pensions help with bereavement – how should CDC deal with it?

Steve Webb does not need introduction but the subjects he covers do – and he introduces ideas that may be new to us, no matter how we might like to consider ourselves pension experts!

The first part of this blog is from Steve , leading to a video that helps the bereaved get inherited pensions from their spouse.

The second part of this blog explains how CDC will pay pensions to surviving spouses.

The blog ends with a question to you which I’d like answers to!


So what about Collective Pensions (CDC)? What protection will they offer spouse’s.

I will be asking this question this morning about collective pensions (CDC). I will be asking Steve’s colleagues, Steven and Helen what they reckon the correct position CDC should take in providing an ongoing “workplace in retirement” to partners who’ve been bereaved of their spouse. You can participate in the debate by clicking here.

Our view is that the decision to protect is almost an obligation so we will be ensuring everyone who has a collective pension has a spouse’s pension as well. We’ll be doing so through our CDC (Pensions Mutual) every member will have a pension that pays out to a spouse as well s them. This may be a little unfair to those who have neither partner or any love for those they are still married to but the word “dependency” is important.

The vast majority of the problem is with men dying first (including of course in men only marriages). We are struggling to define a partnership with no marriage and we may arrive on a definition of a common law marriage but for the most part “spouse” is the person being protected.

The cost to the collective pension’s conversion rate in including a spouse’s pension is not substantial but the benefit when it is called upon is. What I mean by conversion rate is the pension you buy when your boss makes a payment on your behalf (or you make one yourself). The payment converts to pension and the price at which is does has a small deduction to make the payment to your spouse (if you die first).


So in one blog you get answers to two questions!

Like Steve, I don’t think that older people think much about the situation that would occur if they lost their spouse. we find it hard to talk about it to our partner and we’ve thought about this quite a lot.

Our answer is to take away the opportunity to fail to make provision and leave the spouse bereft. CDC schemes can do this effectively as part of its longevity process. It shares the cost and though some people will pay for something that they do not need, the cost is minimal and if the pension dies with them, the sharing works in favour of other members.

We want to explain this to everyone who are in our Collective Pension Scheme and will welcome people’s view. We are a mutual and ultimately will take the views of everyone aboard and change if we see support and see that support as helpful. Please give us the support of your views on this difficult subject and thanks to Steve Webb for his eloquent introduction to the topic of “bereavement and pensions”.

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Brilliant Master Trusts face a bleak future from consolidation.

This work by Go Pensions is most important to any employer considering their DC pension now CDC is a workplace pension alternative.

We should be very grateful to Go Pensions for putting this information out on social media

It provides us with an idea of which pensions are going to make it past the “scale” barriers in place at 2030 – £10bn  and £25bn in in Funds under Management. This is not the same as the money in the master trust as most of the commercial master  trusts have other Funds that can be counted.

But there is little correlation between size and performance. While the conventional view is that value increases for our money from scale, the reality since these master trusts opened their doors (some as much as 15 years ago) is different.

We learn from the report which providers have scale though average pot size and which through numbers of pots. Again there is no correlation. The small pot players include the master trusts with the most members (Nest and People’s) but also less successful (Now , Cushon and to an extent Smart).

Legal & General do not have especially large pots but have numbers too which make them massively succesful.

But the smart players who have underwritten what they take on to attract profitable business are mainly large consultants (Aon , WTW and Mercer) and the insurers. L&G stand head and shoulders versus their insurance rivals but Aviva , Standard Life and Fidelity are gathering assets within their Master Trusts without recourse to counting their other workplace pensions (typically GPP money).

Where the problems of Scale are most obvious with investment propositions that may have achieved what they promised (out-performance) but without the take-up from employers. It is a sad truth (As Pension PlayPen found out) that most employers stuck with names they knew when it came to choosing workplace pensions).

The survey is once again brilliant. It tells us about master trusts and does not stray into other workplace pensions. Royal London has reported that it is a GPP provider whose GPPs take it out of Scale problems, not so Hargreaves’ Vantage workplace pensions, nor True Potential’s , Penfold’s or Collegia’s.

Whatever they have achieved by way of satisfaction (the Go Ahead report includes Trip Adviser reports and ratings) or performance, they will not get past the Scale barriers unless Government creates further exemptions.

Perhaps the saddest story of them all is with three Master Trusts that are most risk because least sheltered by parents. I am thinking of SEI, TPT and Lewis Investments. All have had consistent top performance since inception and have a high reputation for service. As it stands they will need to sell up in four years time. The eagerness to consolidate from the larger schemes is less pressing as they exceed the Scale numbers leaving these schemes with limited options.

I would like to think that they will consider Collective Pensions (CDC) as one of them. CDC is not valued by pots or by assets under management but by its capacity to meet its promises to pay pensions. I suspect that TPT  will offer CDC as an exit for employers in its Master Trust, perhaps such alliances with CDC proprietors will become an option for those Master Trusts with a brilliant past but a bleak future.

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Telling us accurately what we’ve built up as pension should be what the dashboard does

Richard Smith is right in wishing to get engagement of people close to retirement. We want to know what is happening to our money which doesn’t grow like it does in the building society or bank but fluctuates as markets pull it this way and that.

If we have a  wish to convert to an annuity, the problem of what we have is even more acute but even if we are taking a guess about what income we can afford to pay ourselves, working on numbers which are a few months out of date is frustratingly hard.

Read on..!

I happen to have a biggish pot with L&G and a small(ish) pot with Nest and the experience with L&G is good.

The experience with Nest is not so good. I get mysterious messages to contact them about matters which are generally administrative and onerous

This is 14th century stuff compared with the 21st century stuff I get from my banks and indeed L&G.

The simplicity of DC is very rare but at least with the pot size you get an idea of what is happening to your fund and hence your wage in retirement (if you have a means to convert pot to pension for you – and hopefully your partner). But even that seems too hard for Nest to supply the Pension Dashboard.

Of course the Nest message involves me having to log in , navigating to find messages and then starting a process that involves people interacting over a period of time, usually with more emails like this

This really is hopeless. I do almost all of my administration with banks , fund managers and stock brokers , even with the taxman – using texts and not clogging up my private email inbox which increasingly is a home for circulars and worse. To have to log in to a Nest inbox having logged into its website is incredibly frustrating.

I am looking forward to a dashboard that does things in a most modern way but I worry. First I worry that data that I’ll see will be  out of date and secondly that to act on it will involve confusing myself and the administrators I interact with at Nest with numbers.

We really should be beyond having to have this kind of conversation. We need to stop talking to each other about pots and start talking to each other of the pension we expect to get. This is a long way off in the DC world that both Richard and I are in. A world where we have numbers thrown at us which are incomprehesible

A lot of information about what a pot value and how it is calculated but nothing to tell me what I need to know is what I can take tax free and what the rest will buy me as a pension. After this I might like to know what a  pension will increase by, how much protection it will buy my wife – all this is what I need to get from my provider and I never do,

Instead , what I get from Nest is warnings about doing the wrong thing and lessons in how they calculate my pot value, what my pot is and the risks about it going down.

Nest has simply lost the sense of being a pension provider and until it finds a way to communicate with the millions of people that it serves it will perpetuate the distrust in pensions that it should be dispelling.

Of course Nest will tell us that being so big , it cannot be modern. I am sure they will blame the disastrous attempt to upgrade their systems a few years ago before returning to Tata. But my experience of getting things changed with Nest is exasperating as they simply don’t have the capacity to take decisions quickly enough to meet the demands of our times.

It is living in the equivalence of the middle ages – and so are many other “pension” companies that we have dealt with while trying to provide people with value for money assessments at AgeWage.

Nest and their peers must focus going forward on doing what they were set up for, for pensions. Only when they can tell us what we can get as a wage in retirement will I find the information I get from them  worth exploring further.

I hope has flowered and I expect to get accurate information from the pension dashboard; but that flower is withering fast. Thanks Richard Smith

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Collective Pensions (CDC) your questions answered by LCP’s Steve Taylor and Helen Draper

Join us at 10.30 am on Tuesday September 8th for a cracking conversation with two of Britain’s top CDC consultants.

I am aware of charge-out rates for top consultants at top consultancies and I’m amazed that two such – Helen Draper and Steve Taylor of LCP, are offering themselves for free for an hour on Tuesday of next week (September 8th).

We will be recording the session as we always do and for many, that will be the way to digest Helen and Steve’s answers , but I think the winners among those in the Pension PlayPen’s audience will be those who participate. So come along and join in the hour long conversation.

CDC is undoubtedly the most interesting development in the workplace and the concept of Collective Pensions the natural progression from the DC master trusts we have today.

I’ll ask a few questions to kick things off and I’m sure they will have some things to say, but this is a Pension PlayPen coffee morning to share experience and discuss the future.

Please add to your calendar and click here or post the link below into your diary. It’s at 10.30 am online. (Tuesday 8th September)

https://teams.microsoft.com/meet/349110786671465?p=44cRsS3vjiqJGdW8aF

It’s back from work and feet under the table and we’re having the first Coffee Morning since Maggie Rodgers and the AMNT at the end of July.

The great news is that the two LCP partners, Steven Taylor and Helen Draper will be talking with us and answering some of the questions that have been “sent in” below. I expect there will be many more from the coffee drinkers who assemble to participate (don’t worry you don’t need to if you don’t want to)!

We will not be constrained – we will venture into all aspects of this amazing topic.

What we’ll be discussing on Tuesday at 10.30 am is Collective Pensions (as the DWP would like us to know CDC as).

Is that a good name for CDC and what should Retirement CDC be known as? Callum Stewart has asked our opinion on CDC that won’t be with us till 2029 and which bifurcate opinion.

What do we think for the prospect of R-CDC as the experts call it? So far it’s WTW who say they’ll do it – do we think there’ll be more?

How do we feel about transfers of pots into pensions not just at retirement but before the pension is about to pay out? Should Trustees be agreeing bulk transfers and if so can such transfers be made without member consent? Does it matter if the pot is in a sole employer occupational scheme, master trust or maybe one day a group personal pension? How much authority in this does the employer have and what role does the union play?

And for all the talk, who’s walking the Collective Pension walk? TPT has put its name up and so has Pensions Mutual, a mysterious third CDC know variously as Arboreum and Collective Pension is lurking. Isio have made mutterings about getting authorised as a Proprietor and Aon are promising to get launch a workplace plan some time in 2028. We hope we have the Church of England joining the multi-employer CDC schemes that have been open to authorisation just over a month now.

What LCP think about this will be revealed at 10.30 am on Tuesday 8th September. The link to join will be posted on http://www.pensionplaypen.com (events) and on future versions of this blog so you can cut and paste it into your diaries.

If you don’t use a digital diary you can click through from one of the posted links and find yourself in others either expert or beginning their Collective Pensions (CDC) journey!


Please add to your calendar and click here or post the link  into your diary. It’s at 10.30 am online. (Tuesday 8th September)

https://teams.microsoft.com/meet/349110786671465?p=44cRsS3vjiqJGdW8aF

 

 

 

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What does Total Portfolio Approach mean and can my pension adopt it?

Roger Urwin has been around longer than me, and I’ve been looking at and learning from his work for at least a quarter of a century. He’s still sharing his thinking (sophisticated as it is) with those who have time to think about Total Portfolio Approach (TPA)

I suspect that we will end up contracting out the investment of Pensions Mutual collective pension (CDC) and so Roger’s thinking is for someone else but if they can play back to us his thinking, I suspect that I’ll be a lot wiser and more confident of what they’re up to!

Thanks Roger – I’m making this available to my investment friends!

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Don’t get caught by “lifestyling” – think about annuitizing your pension pot – says Claer Barrett

I’m not an advocate of DC options in the long term but I have a lot of time for Claer Barret and her advice for the wealthy readers of the Financial Times.

There are other things that a Chancellor could do, he could send bond yields shooting up as Kwarteng did 4 years before but this seems unlikely. Fiscal rules will be complied with and bond rates and inflation may be eased. Annuities look a good bet right now as Claer advertises. But if you’ve had bonds in your default DIY pension fund , your fund will have done ok of late as bond yields have risen to the highest rates since 1998. They have only one direction if bond yields and Government borrowing are under control – that’s down!

But isn’t this so hard? If you are reading my blog, you probably understand Claer’s arguments but it’s unlikely you get to think about them, read about them, are able to understand them if you’re the 15m who haven’t got enough pension to get by.

Taking lifestyle decisions sounds pretty innocuous but these are lifetime decisions and most are taken for you with a sophisticated drawdown strategy called flex and fix in mind.

That will end in an annuity eventually (the fix) and will insure against your annuity conversion rate going down when you are having one bought for you. This is called “guided retirement” it’s coming soon but it’s already where the pot you’re in will be going if you take no action.

To take action and lock in the high annuity conversion rate that are on offer is a good deal but you should recognise that the Government has advertised that the coming CDC pensions will convert pots to collective pensions that will be considerably higher – up to 60% higher said the DWP’s advertisement last October.

The best news for those who don’t have advisers or read the FT is not to worry. Things are getting better and you may be lucky enough to be in one of these “bigger collective pension funds” that will deliver better outcome for “future pensioners” assuming you haven’t yet cashed in your pot or bought an annuity.

The usual warning applies, unless you swap your pot for an annuity , you won’t get a guaranteed wage in retirement and if you want that guarantee – now is a good time to swap pot for annuity (so long as you are over 55).

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